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grantcart

(53,061 posts)
Mon May 25, 2020, 10:42 AM May 2020

The story behind the story about Trump's bizarre "Open the schools ASAP" tweet

Last night



https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/trump-tweets-schools-should-open-asap-but-poll-shows-americans-arent-on-board/507-372457cd-d0ea-4e34-b5dd-118f2d0e55dc


WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump is doubling down on his calls to reopen schools in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic, but recent polls show not everyone is behind that idea.


The president tweeted late Sunday night that "Schools in our country should be opened ASAP."


"Much very good information now available," Trump added, while tagging British political adviser and commentator Steven Hilton in his tweet. Shortly before Trump's tweet, Hilton had appeared on Fox News and discussed reopening schools.




Bypassing CDC and John Hopkins Trump not only goes to Fox News but goes to a third string FOX Sunday fill in guy who claims



"Can children infect others? Were constantly told to follow the science and the data, well, here it is" he said. "one study found quote even if children do get infected they are less likely to transmit the disease to other adults. We have not found a single instance of a child infecting parents"



Google "do children spread the coronavirus" and the first article is the one that these idiots are referring to:



https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/how-sweden-wasted-rare-opportunity-study-coronavirus-schools

But KI pediatrician and clinical epidemiologist Jonas Ludvigsson, who has published two review articles about COVID-19 in children, thinks tracing infected people’s contacts is of little use at this point in the epidemic. “The virus is so widespread in society that responsible people do not think it is a good idea to trace individuals. We only test symptomatic individuals. I agree with that,” he wrote in response to Science asking whether researchers were tracking school outbreaks

. . .

“So far there have been no reports of COVID-19 outbreaks in Swedish schools,” citing “personal communication” from Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s state epidemiologist, on 12 May. “This supports the argument that asymptomatic children attending schools are unlikely to spread the disease,” Ludvigsson wrote.



First thing that this idiot Hilton should have noted is that this is not a scientific argument but an unverified hypothesis, the kind of thing that it would be useful to build a scientific study around.

All they had to do is read one more paragraph and they would find that in fact there are outbreaks in Sweedish schools with large numbers of teachers getting the virus and many teachers dying from it.



However, a scan of Swedish newspapers makes clear that school outbreaks have occurred. In the town of Skellefteå, a teacher died and 18 of 76 staff tested positive at a school with about 500 students in preschool through ninth grade. The school closed for 2 weeks because so many staff were sick, but students were not tested for the virus. In Uppsala, staff protested when school officials, citing patient privacy rules, declined to notify families or staff that a teacher had tested positive. No contact tracing was done at the school. At least two staff members at other schools have died, but those schools remained open and no one attempted to trace the spread of the disease there. When asked about these cases, Ludvigsson said he was unaware of them. He did not respond to a query about whether he would amend the review article to include them.



The President of the US is making policy by avoiding experts and relying on weekend hosts on FOX that can't distinguish between an "observation" and a scientific study and fail to read to the end of an article to discover that the very promising idea in the meat of the article has in fact been completely discredited by a "brief scan" of news articles that report that not only can children spread the disease but that where "sheltering at home" was not followed teachers died.

This is a policy making machine that is not only not based by scientific inquiry but is a search to find and promote the thinnest "happy talk" from the most unreliable sources.
33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The story behind the story about Trump's bizarre "Open the schools ASAP" tweet (Original Post) grantcart May 2020 OP
K&R, there's no opening the economy without kids going back to school uponit7771 May 2020 #1
Kick cry baby May 2020 #2
He doesn't care if kids die or teachers die SoonerPride May 2020 #3
+1, and its not ... Sweden is getting lit up with CV19 cases and their economy is still bad uponit7771 May 2020 #11
schoolchildren have a staggeringly low chance of death from COVID-19 Celerity May 2020 #29
With 3 weeks left? underpants May 2020 #4
Has anybody done a deep dive into Sweden exboyfil May 2020 #5
I live in Stockholm, I have been doing deep dives for months, here is one I just did in this thread Celerity May 2020 #30
Not only does he show how stupid he is MyOwnPeace May 2020 #6
thing is, like a million times before, they can repeat that from 1500 radio stations certainot May 2020 #7
This exactly. Yavin4 May 2020 #23
That fat asshat is trippin' BlueIdaho May 2020 #8
Does he mean open now or in the fall? This is the last week for K-12 in my district. nature-lover May 2020 #9
That's what I was going to say. School is over. forgotmylogin May 2020 #12
He hasn't a clue about real life. He probably doesn't even know what grade Barron is in. nature-lover May 2020 #16
Never once took him golfing grantcart May 2020 #33
IKR? grantcart May 2020 #27
But WHO praised Sweden... TomVilmer May 2020 #10
Sweden decided that the economy is more important than lives, that is their choice and they yaesu May 2020 #13
they decided as long as they have hospital capacity AlexSFCA May 2020 #22
Sweden also has the highest deaths per capita from the virus rate among their Scandinavian neighbors Yavin4 May 2020 #24
We never had herd immunity as strategy, this has been a massive lie that keeps getting spread at all Celerity May 2020 #31
they are not going for herd immunity, they are playing a long game AlexSFCA May 2020 #32
Some reporter should ask Trump neeksgeek May 2020 #14
Hey, you ignorant orange MURDERER!! Our schools are done for the academic year anyway. niyad May 2020 #15
Trump also looked directly at a solar eclipse gratuitous May 2020 #17
Intelligent parents marieo1 May 2020 #18
logistically this would be tough MissB May 2020 #19
K&R denbot May 2020 #20
Typical of faux news & rush limpballs, they take a sliver of truth & make it sound 100% true KS Toronado May 2020 #21
Well it does take a lot of time to research these things grantcart May 2020 #26
Trump is an idiot PJMcK May 2020 #25
Anders Tegnell was a key proponent for Sweden's "herd immunity" policy Roland99 May 2020 #28

SoonerPride

(12,286 posts)
3. He doesn't care if kids die or teachers die
Mon May 25, 2020, 10:51 AM
May 2020

He just wants everything to go back to what it was last year

Because he must be re-elected. He can’t lose and stay out of prison and he knows it

Celerity

(43,134 posts)
29. schoolchildren have a staggeringly low chance of death from COVID-19
Mon May 25, 2020, 03:16 PM
May 2020

In fact, you can extend that up to under 40 year olds, and actually even to under 50 year olds, as only above 50 year of age do you see an explosion in terms of death rates.

Here in Sweden we have had one death in the under 20 years of age cohort, a 4 year old with multiple comorbidities

these are the the official stats from Folkhälsomyndigheten, our state health agency

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa

and that is with all schools under high school level open the whole time

the youngest half of the country (so around 5.05 million people) has had a total of 21 deaths, almost all with comorbidities

Under 20 years of age 1 total death, and gain not a school age child, it was a 4 year old who had comorbidity

Under 30 years of age 9 total deaths (1 plus 8)

Under 40 years of age 21 total deaths (9 plus 12) <<< this is half our population



99% of all deaths have been over 50 years of age

97% over 60 years of age

89% over 70 years of age

66% over 80 years of age


We are having a large drop off of deaths now (there was a flat out false report a few days back that said we had the highest 7 day deaths per million rate in the world, which was pure rubbish, it literally tripled the rate from the actual one)

Also, our economy is going to get smashed like everyone else soon (as we are a large exporting nation and the global supply chain is all cocked -up for all nations) but Q1 GDP we barely dropped at all (0.3%), especially compared to most other advanced nations

there is so much disinfo out there, and people keep pushing it, including the big lie that going for herd immunity was and is our main goal and strategy when it NEVER was

See this link right below for a take down of that dodgy article and also the 'Sweden is going for herd immunity' tosh

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=13463836


the stats from our official state health agency (I gave the link above)

deaths per day (avlidna per dag)



deaths by age group (our elderly care homes is where we truly fucked up, tragically so, as they have accounted for between 50 and 70% of the deaths per region, a topic I have went into depth on in multiple posts as to why, here is one)




The USA shows similar percentages for the younger cohorts

99.2% of all US CDC documented COVID deaths have come from the 35 years of age and over cohort

97.5% of all US CDC documented COVID deaths have come from the 45 years of age and over cohort

92.6% of all US CDC documented COVID deaths have from the 55 years of age and over cohort



https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku

these numbers need updating (they are 9 days old, the CDC is slacking)



US deaths per age cohort as of May 16th, 2020

Under 15 years of age (61 million people in the US), 12 total documented deaths in that cohort. 7 of those deaths were of school age.

Under 25 years of age (over 104 million people in this group), 88 total documented COVID-19 deaths (12 plus 76)

Under 35 years of age (over 150 million people in this group, so getting near half the entire population) 551 total deaths (88 plus 463)

Under 45 years of age (over 191 million people) 1737 total documented deaths (551 + 1186)

underpants

(182,632 posts)
4. With 3 weeks left?
Mon May 25, 2020, 11:06 AM
May 2020

and that’s Virginia schools East of 95 mostly. A lot of schools in the western part of the state are already done.

exboyfil

(17,862 posts)
5. Has anybody done a deep dive into Sweden
Mon May 25, 2020, 11:08 AM
May 2020

and tracking the corona virus spread? One major difference between them and other countries is the elementary kids remaining in school. Also I haven't heard of a daycare cluster spreading here in Iowa even though we kept those open as well.

I think it is stupid to consider having kids return for the end of the year given the short window available. I would say consideration should be given to an early start in the Fall for some subjects like math, reading, and writing.

MyOwnPeace

(16,920 posts)
6. Not only does he show how stupid he is
Mon May 25, 2020, 11:20 AM
May 2020

in his sentence structure, but he leaves a trail to show how he builds his stupid argument!

GAWD, he's gotta' go!

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
7. thing is, like a million times before, they can repeat that from 1500 radio stations
Mon May 25, 2020, 11:41 AM
May 2020

to 50 mil a week as long as it takes to make it true

until dems realize that and end it, we cannot have a fact-based national discussion about any issue

nature-lover

(1,468 posts)
9. Does he mean open now or in the fall? This is the last week for K-12 in my district.
Mon May 25, 2020, 11:59 AM
May 2020

Does he not know that school is soon to be (if not already) out for the summer?

forgotmylogin

(7,521 posts)
12. That's what I was going to say. School is over.
Mon May 25, 2020, 12:06 PM
May 2020

The high school next to me just had (a drive-in) graduation ceremony.

TomVilmer

(1,832 posts)
10. But WHO praised Sweden...
Mon May 25, 2020, 12:03 PM
May 2020

This misunderstanding was all over the news a month ago ago:

The World Health Organization praised Sweden as a model for battling the coronavirus.
Mike Ryan, the WHO’s top emergencies expert, said there are “lessons to be learned” from Sweden, which has controversially refused to impose restrictions, sparking international criticism.


That praise looked dubious, and the source of it tells a less optimistic story. First of all lessons to be learned is the most polite way to say absolutely nothing. Secondly the other thing quoted was "if we are to reach a new normal in many ways Sweden represents a future model of". Which again tells nothing about the past strategy of Sweden, but is precisely aimed at what do do, when society is slowly reopened.

Last week Sweden had European record numbers in most deaths per capita.

yaesu

(8,020 posts)
13. Sweden decided that the economy is more important than lives, that is their choice and they
Mon May 25, 2020, 12:15 PM
May 2020

have a 100 times better social safety net infrastructure than we do. Doing the same thing here is foolish & dangerous.

AlexSFCA

(6,137 posts)
22. they decided as long as they have hospital capacity
Mon May 25, 2020, 01:33 PM
May 2020

the lockdowns ensure hospital capacity, but Sweden didn’t have an issue like NYC. They will go on lockdown should hospitals run out of beds. Their policy work well for them and is supported by 75% of citizens. We don’t have those levels of support on anything in the US.
Sweden made one mistake (Cuomo too): failed to protect nursing homes early on. Over 50% of all death in Sweden occurred in nursing homes. Sweden’s local economy is doing better than countries with lockdowns but they are still heavily affected by EU travel bans and lockdowns. Sweden’s economy is 30% export.

Yavin4

(35,423 posts)
24. Sweden also has the highest deaths per capita from the virus rate among their Scandinavian neighbors
Mon May 25, 2020, 01:42 PM
May 2020

And, they have not achieved herd immunity as of yet. They sacrificed lives with nothing to show for it.

So far, the Swedish model is a failure.

Celerity

(43,134 posts)
31. We never had herd immunity as strategy, this has been a massive lie that keeps getting spread at all
Mon May 25, 2020, 03:28 PM
May 2020

levels. I debunk that and much more in this reply (I link to other deep dives on other threads I did in this link below, that go into detail on herd immunity, etc.)

It is exhausting trying to combat the tosh being put out there.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213482637#post29

AlexSFCA

(6,137 posts)
32. they are not going for herd immunity, they are playing a long game
Mon May 25, 2020, 03:53 PM
May 2020

in which only the total number of deaths after the pandemic that matters, and that must include auxiliary deaths as well, indirect ones. The most important is to maintain sufficient hospital capacity. Sweden is the most progressive country on the planet and their approach to this pandemic is the most radically progressive. There isn’t going to be a vaccine for at least 18 months. The news about vaccine you are reading, is fraud aimed at increasing stock value - look at Moderna. Astra Zeneca and others are engaged in this too.

neeksgeek

(1,214 posts)
14. Some reporter should ask Trump
Mon May 25, 2020, 12:23 PM
May 2020

“Why are you putting so much emphasis on returning to the Moon? It’s obvious you’re a Flat Earther!”

niyad

(113,079 posts)
15. Hey, you ignorant orange MURDERER!! Our schools are done for the academic year anyway.
Mon May 25, 2020, 12:31 PM
May 2020

HELL, even AFA graduated (without, I might add, forcing students to return).

Please, please, do us all a favour and contract a fatal case of this "hoax" that has killed at least 100,000 of our people.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
17. Trump also looked directly at a solar eclipse
Mon May 25, 2020, 12:46 PM
May 2020

He said the stock market looked very good to him, just before it cratered.

He said the number of cases would be down to zero by the beginning of March.

He said 10 weeks ago that anyone who wanted a test could get a test.

Maybe we shouldn't listen to someone who has been so lethally wrong all along?

marieo1

(1,402 posts)
18. Intelligent parents
Mon May 25, 2020, 12:55 PM
May 2020

My prayer is that there are some intelligent parents out there that love their kids enough to protect them - DJT will NOT protect them.

MissB

(15,804 posts)
19. logistically this would be tough
Mon May 25, 2020, 01:00 PM
May 2020

Teachers with little kids would need daycare. Schools would need food to serve lunches (and those supply lines are quite diverted right now). Schools would have to be deep cleaned constantly ... with what cleaning supplies?

Is there enough hand soap in the nation to supply school bathrooms for constant hand washing?

KS Toronado

(17,155 posts)
21. Typical of faux news & rush limpballs, they take a sliver of truth & make it sound 100% true
Mon May 25, 2020, 01:30 PM
May 2020

And the maga crowd eats it up, how sad

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
26. Well it does take a lot of time to research these things
Mon May 25, 2020, 01:54 PM
May 2020

From reading the tweet to reading the Fox host comments to finding what triggered them took me 1 min 42 seconds.

Roland99

(53,342 posts)
28. Anders Tegnell was a key proponent for Sweden's "herd immunity" policy
Mon May 25, 2020, 03:03 PM
May 2020

And that’s back-fired horribly

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