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H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 11:08 PM Jan 2020

Carthage

Last September, in conversations with friends from this forum and elsewhere, we discussed how the Trump – Ukraine scandal was likely to play out. I said that the House would impeach him, and that Trump would react by attempting to start a fight with Iran to distract attention from his corruption. This wasn't because I am particularly smart or insightful; rather, it had to do with a letter dating from June 26, 1979 from the Hurricane.

I was thinking about that letter as I was discussing the situation with Iran with community members here a couple of days ago. It was at a time when Rubin was in a self-imposed isolation within the New Jersey prison, which was distinct from the numerous episodes of being put in solitary confinement, or placed in the Vroom Psychiatric Unit, behind Trenton State Prison.

This was an interesting time in the world of politics. The people of Iran had joined together in opposition to the Shah, who had recently left the country, never to return. The US and its European allies had assisted in the return of a cleric who had been in exile for 14 years, most of the time living in Iraq. President Carter had hoped to prevent a post-Shah military takeover, and Ayatollah Khomeini had assured the US that he would not stop selling our country oil.

At this time, the various factions inside the Islamic Republic of Iran were attempting to define if their country would be ruled primarily by religion, or if it would be a republic. Iranian students had invaded the US embassy, but Khomeini had ordered them out. It was before the students again entered the embassy and took hostages. It was a little before Saddam Hussein, who as the #2 leader in Iraq had forced Khomeini to leave, and then after taking full power, would initiate the Iraq-Iran war.

It was also a bit before a group of Canadians first contacted Rubin. At the time, he was only communicating with three people outside of prison. One was, of course, myself; at the time I was young, idealistic, and rather radical in my political philosophy. I was convinced that there was an “Answer” to society's problems, and while at this late date I can not remember the precise question(s) I had asked Rubin, I was looking towards “what can be done?”

“Noe before we get to this question of DOING something,” Rubin wrote, “there is yet another question tat is connected with it, and that is: If, indeed, ANYTHING can BE done! …..and also (the) thinking that those who ARE in in positions of authority don't care and aren't doing their jobs, or that they are not doing them in the way they SHOULD be done. But is that REALLY a fact, or is it not a fact that everyone always thinks that he can do it better? It always seems to us that that other people invariably do things wrongly. When, in reality, whatever is BEING done, and particularly what HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE, cannot be, and could not have been done – in view of all that has gone on before it – in any OTHER way!

“Prove it, you say? And I say the proof is in the pudding: TODAY is what it IS because YESTERDAY is what it was ! And if today is like yesterday, then tomorrow will be like today. Which means that if we want tomorrow to be different, than we must first make TODAY different! But if today is simply a CONSEQUENCE of yesterday, the tomorrow will also be a consequence today in exactly the same way Do you see what I'm getting at? And if one has studied most thoroughly what has happened yesterday, or the day before, or a week before that, a year, or even ten years BEFORE that – than one can say without fear of making a mistake WHAT exactly WILL or WILL NOT happen tomorrow!' ….

“ So everything is going in the only way it CAN go. The only thing that can CHANGE are people. People can be different. And if people were DIFFERENT, than EVERYTHING would also BE different. But people are always acting out of their nationalistic PRIDE – or should we say ignorance? People are always German, French, Dutch, African, American, Russian or Chinese; we are always black, white, red, yellow or brown; we are Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Jews or Buddhists; we are democrats, or republicans, conservatives or liberals; we belong to THIS group or that GROUP of people, always dividing ourselves, always seeking to conquer, always quarreling and forever fighting – and because people ARE exactly WHAT they are, everything IS as it is, and it CAN BE NO DIFFERENT!

“People throughout the ages have always believed in mechanical evolution and mechanical progress. But there has been NO progress and there is no PROGRESS, whatsoever! Everything is just the same today as it was a thousand, or tens of thousands, of years ago. The outer forms may have changed, but the essence always remains the same. Which means that MAN remains the same. And today's so-called civilized and cultured people live with EXACTLY the SAME interest and motivations as did our most ignorant and savage ancestors! Today's so-called modern civilization is based on violence and slavery and fine words in just the same way it always has been. And exactly as it always has been; all of those fine words about 'progress' and 'culture' and 'civilization' are exactly that – MERELY FINE WORDS, but utterly without meaning.”

Now, he wrote that at a time when he believed he was very unlikely to ever get out of prison. Is case had been through the New Jersey courts for over a decade, being passed around in a manner that made it difficult to get it into federal court. However, his legal team was still working on this, and a few things were beginning to show promise.

The letter – which is very long – went on to say numerous other things. He talked at length about the very real chance that, in my lifetime, I would see the United States becoming the newest version of Nazi Germany. He saw a cancer-bud that was digging its roots into the ground. But he also spoke hopefully about human evolution – the same topic we continued to discuss after he got out of prison, and that he wrote and spoke publicly until his death in 2014.

Around the globe, within humanity, I see both forces taking place. It's up to us, people.

Peace,
H2O Man

19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Carthage (Original Post) H2O Man Jan 2020 OP
Recommended - after 9/11: Dennis Donovan Jan 2020 #1
Thank you! H2O Man Jan 2020 #3
PBO Said Me. Jan 2020 #2
I believe that. H2O Man Jan 2020 #4
This Me. Jan 2020 #6
Very good men, both. H2O Man Jan 2020 #8
On such a night as this... Hekate Jan 2020 #5
Thank you! H2O Man Jan 2020 #7
I will hold that thought Hekate Jan 2020 #9
Strange days. H2O Man Jan 2020 #13
This is my hope, too. herding cats Jan 2020 #11
It's weird ..... H2O Man Jan 2020 #14
I sure as hell hope so! burrowowl Jan 2020 #12
Definitely. H2O Man Jan 2020 #15
I've come to the conclusion that we could go to any time in history, and the same plays would be NBachers Jan 2020 #10
Yes. H2O Man Jan 2020 #16
Thank you for the intelligent post as well as all the replies! Karadeniz Jan 2020 #17
Thanks, Karadeniz. H2O Man Jan 2020 #18
Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow malthaussen Jan 2020 #19

Dennis Donovan

(18,770 posts)
1. Recommended - after 9/11:
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 11:18 PM
Jan 2020
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_September_11_attacks

Iran: Iranian president Mohamed Khatami and Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei condemned and denounced the attacks and the terrorists who carried them out. Iranians who gathered for a soccer match in Tehran two days after the 9/11 attacks observed a moment of silence.

There was also a candlelight vigil. Huge crowds attended candlelit vigils in Iran, and 60,000 spectators observed a minute's silence at Tehran's soccer stadium.

On Tuesday, September 25, in 2001, Iran's fifth president, Mohammad Khatami meeting British Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw, said: "Iran fully understands the feelings of the Americans about the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington on September 11." He said although the American administrations had been at best indifferent about terrorist operations in Iran (since 1979), the Iranians instead felt differently and had expressed their sympathetic feelings with bereaved Americans in the tragic incidents in the two cities." He also stated that "Nations should not be punished in place of terrorists."

According to Radio Farda's website, in 2011, on the anniversary of the attacks, United States Department of State, published a post at its blog, in which the Department thanked Iranian people for their sympathy and stated that they would never forget Iranian people's kindness on those harsh days. This piece of news at Radio Farda's website also states that after the attacks' news was released, some Iranian citizens gathered in front of the Embassy of Switzerland in Tehran, which serves as the protecting power of the United States in Iran, to express their sympathy and some of them lit candles as a symbol of mourning.

</snip>


The Persian people are not our natural enemies.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
3. Thank you!
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 11:28 PM
Jan 2020

I posted a short video of Anthony Bourdain sharing a meal with an Iranian family yesterday, on both this forum and facebook. It got a couple of shares on fb. I think that a close examination of the relationship between the US and Iran is important ....and our knowing them as individual human beings, who are parts of families and communities, is essential.

It would be much better if we were friends.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
4. I believe that.
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 11:30 PM
Jan 2020

President Obama's comment communicates the same general Truth as Gandhi's, "You must be the change you want to see in the world."

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
7. Thank you!
Tue Jan 7, 2020, 11:50 PM
Jan 2020

I think that things are not what they appear to be on the television news tonight. On the surface, yes, and thus there is real danger. But at other levels, I believe that there are wiser people -- including some in the US -- currently stepping up. Things might look better in 48 hours.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
13. Strange days.
Wed Jan 8, 2020, 11:19 AM
Jan 2020

One of my sons said his workplace is on "alert" today. People are anxious. But things will be okay. And then, with our efforts, they will be good.

burrowowl

(17,606 posts)
12. I sure as hell hope so!
Wed Jan 8, 2020, 01:36 AM
Jan 2020

Keeping fingers crossed that there are wise people left who can exert influence.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
15. Definitely.
Wed Jan 8, 2020, 11:22 AM
Jan 2020

Trump can't be trusted to order a meal at McDonalds. He sure as hell can't be trusted to handle the crisis he has created.

NBachers

(16,999 posts)
10. I've come to the conclusion that we could go to any time in history, and the same plays would be
Wed Jan 8, 2020, 01:26 AM
Jan 2020

playing out; the same cast of characters would be working their atrocious manipulations; we'd be struggling and failing to free ourselves from the dark forces of ignorance, hate, violence, and repression.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
16. Yes.
Wed Jan 8, 2020, 11:24 AM
Jan 2020

There have been islands of sanity, of course, throughout human history. But there have also been those who disrupt any balance, as surely as night follows day.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
18. Thanks, Karadeniz.
Wed Jan 8, 2020, 03:49 PM
Jan 2020

Those were strange times, though not so unsettling as these days. I thought that some people here would find this interesting.

malthaussen

(17,065 posts)
19. Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow
Thu Jan 9, 2020, 01:31 PM
Jan 2020

Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

-- Mal

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