There is one very compelling reason not to impeach Trump

[grantcart]

I am of the opinion that we should slowly build a case in such a way that compels everyone, including Republicans to face the facts and come to an agreement on the facts.

Once we have agreement on the facts then the impetus and force will build for impeachment.

There is one reason that strategists who look long term advocate stopping short of impeachment: it significantly undermines Republican 2020 electoral chances in all federal offices.

There is another even more compelling reason: if Trump is impeached Pence will pardon him, and all of the top gangsters in this criminal enterprise. If, however Trump stays in office and suffers electoral defeat he will have nothing to shield him from the full force of federal prosecutors and can not only suffer disgrace but actually go to jail.

It almost seems that this is Mueller's preferred choice and why his report pointedly states, "no one is above the law", and "the President can be prosecuted after he leaves office".

While it seems like an eternity to wait for a post election result I would happily bear it to ensure that Trump faces the ultimate humiliation of actual imprisonment, preferably until he dies in jail.

[stopbush]

1. And if he stays in office and wins in 2020?

[oasis]

3. If 2020 is NOT the "end of my presidency", then WE are "f___ed".

[TwilightZone]

4. He's staying in office, whether he gets impeached or not.

The Senate will not convict him.

[Andy823]

33. Exactly!

I can't understand why so many here can't get that through their head. We are stuck with him until he either goes insane, or till the election.

He is a narcissist, and he needs attention, and turmoil. He has to play people against each other, and I think that he may really want Democrats to impeach him so he will have a fight on his hands, which he loves, and he also knows impeachment will not work once it goes to the Senate, and he will claim victory once again. I believe Pelosi knows what she is doing.

I also think a lot of our "impeach" crowd are trolls doing their best to divide and cause problems here on DU. Kind of like they did the last time in the primaries and election!

[onit2day]

44. Get it through that impeachment will ensure he is not reelected. Law requires we impeach

Political reasons should not be a justification for not doing your duty or not upholding the law for future presidents to see. Once all this fraud's misdeeds are laid open before the public it will be up to the senate to hold a trial but sen repubs will only look guilty and complicit in breaking the law. Opinions are changing even now but once Trump is exposed and evidence of wrongdoings in other areas will only add to the articles for impeachment. The "No impeachment" crowd is more likely the 'trolls' you speak of. They are like those who say "the women he raped will be less victimized if we just send the rapist out of state". Wrong. Trump broke the law and thumbs his nose at those who are to hold him accountable. There is no justifiable reason NOT to impeach.
Nixon got enough senators to convict him only after the House held impeachment proceedings and exposed him.

[redstatebluegirl]

58. Thank you!

People here with little political experience have no idea about this!

[Bucky]

36. The impeachment process will add drama and public attention to corruption hearings

I like the idea of high stakes investigations driving the news agenda. Bringing impeachment down to a vote is probably a mistake, but the public focus on impeachment hearings will serve to inform the public what craziness and disloyalty the Trump klan is involved in.

[C_U_L8R]

2. When Trump loses

He won't wait until January. He'll quit and have Pence pardon him. Still won't stop all the state prosecutions.

[onit2day]

38. None of your reasons are mentioned in the constitution which demands action

[Bernardo de La Paz]

61. Should be law so if a President resigns after defeat & before Inauguration the new Pres takes over

... rather than lame duck VP ascending for two months.

The new duly elected President should succeed the old President. Period.

[manor321]

5. Nonsense. Trump will pardon himself.

There is no good argument against impeachment. Not one.

[onit2day]

41. Impeachment proceedings IS for gathering evidence to give to the senate

Every day we wait allows Trump to become more insulated and to threaten those critical of him. Trump has been doing his "sue and delay" tactic his entire life as a means to stiff his contractors suits. The most corrupt unscrupulous president ever elected by the electoral college. He must be stopped and impeachment proceedings will expose all his misdeeds before the public and ensure his defeat at the polls. Gives congress massive investigative powers to obtain his tax returns and other financial dealings.
manor 321 is absolutely correct. There is no good reason not to impeach.

[NRaleighLiberal]

6. this is just more of Democrats keeping their powder dry - bringing water balloons to a nuke fight.

Sick of it.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

11. Me, too,

Everyday we sit around and do nothing is another day that he gets to wipe his fat ass with the Constitution.

Act. Now.

Impeach. Now.

[SlogginThroughIt]

25. no it isn't it is Democrats doing their due diligence

We can start impeachment without calling it impeachment. Same as watergate. There is no need to call it impeachment right now and hand the republicans the power to call democrats hysterical and out of control over what they are spinning as a Mueller report that says he did nothing wrong. Get people on record in house hearings and if they don’t appear that just makes them look more guilty.

When Trump refuses to let people testify and further obstructs then bring the articles. There is a road map to impeachment that I believe Democrats are following even if they are appearing cool to it right now.

[BeyondGeography]

7. Slowly build a case while he and his stooge AG take down the WITCH HUNT?

That sounds like a draw to me, at best.

I follow your reasoning, but we aren’t functioning in a vacuum here.

And forget Mitch McConnell even bringing impeachment to the floor, let alone finding 20 R’s to convict.

I think our goal should be an impeachment vote in the House before Thanksgiving. That’s seven months of torture for the would-be dictator and seven months of mobilizing our vote to defeat him in 2020.

Forget the Senate. I never cared about that. The House has a chance to score one for the Constitution and the rule of law, and to galvanize the base for next year. It’s well worth the trouble.

[watoos]

8. There is no reason that Democrats can't

have a lengthy impeachment hearing. No one is saying that Democrats should do what Republicans did to Clinton, they didn't even hold hearings they just voted to impeach.

Hold a long hearing that brings out all of trump's vile behavior, he will have a nervous breakdown, he is not a strong person.

[ReformedGOPer]

14. +1

[The_Counsel]

59. Wait...I Thought There Were Clinton Impeachment Hearings in the House?

Both Lindsay Graham and Chuck Schumer were on the House Judiciary at the time. Graham was eventually a prosecutor in the Senate trial, while Schumer led the defense. It was weird because Schumer sat on the House Judiciary when it voted out impeachment articles, was elected to the Senate that same year, and then the following year voted for Clinton's acquittal.

But it was the House hearings that was why I'd even heard of either one of them. I'm pretty sure there were hearings...

[mahina]

9. What about the months between the election and Jan 21?

How do we make it through that gap without the obvious outcome when a sociopath has nothing to lose from trying to cling to power?

[IndyOp]

10. When Jared Kushner dismisses the attack on 2016 election

by saying there were a few Facebook ads and DJT is filing lawsuits to block subpoenas it is way too fucking late to move slowly.

[DLevine]

17. +1

[SunSeeker]

12. Pence can't pardon state charges; NY has a shitload of those against the Trump Crime Family.

And even if Pence could pardon him for everything, that is all the more reason to do what we definitely can do to him: make Trump go down in history as the 3rd president to be impeached, and the first to be impeached for welcoming an attack by a foreign adversary in order to gain office and then obstructing an investigation into that attack. That is a devastating epitaph for Trump and the GOP.

[Lock him up.]

16. Totally agree, and take that opportunity to demonstrate how Citizen United brought all the

criminal foreign-adversary donations into the NRA coffers without consequences... so far.

Electoral Process Reform Act on the table. Start with paper ballots everywhere.

[abqtommy]

13. NOW! The time to investigate and impeach is NOW!

There is enough information available NOW so let's do it. There's no way we can convince the minority of tRump supporters but the majority will be with us.

[Thekaspervote]

15. Thx for the thoughtful post!! Agree completely

[anarch]

18. I guess that whole "making sure we expose his misdeeds such that nobody can deny them"

is what I pictured happening with the start of impeachment proceedings, which I assume we would draw out in the House for as long as possible, so that new revelations are made public on a weekly basis (or maybe not even revelations, so much as addressing why any of the several impeachable things he has done in total public view are not cool) and we don't get to the whole part where the Senate makes a mockery of the rule of law until the only effect it has on the 2020 election is that more and more decent people are turned off from voting "R" as light is shined on more and more ugliness, but we don't pull the trigger on actually voting on impeachment until sometime after summer 2020...in the meantime, we make sure it's clear that's what's coming.

I don't know...following normal rules and procedures isn't going to work anymore. That's part of the reason, when my cynical side starts winning me over, that I actually don't even care if the fucker gets impeached, as long as we make it clear that the reason why it's not happening is that the Senate Republicans are known accomplices. As long as we do everything possible, short of physical violence (I guess), to make the bastard's life absolutely miserable, keep him from doing the things he enjoys (e.g. golfing at his various resorts), and mindfucking the MAGAts any way we can--start spreading our own absurd propaganda and make them start doubting whether their local Republican candidates really support Herr Führer strongly enough, etc.

Meanwhile, we keep up the pressure around impeachment, but do it in a way that slow rolls the investigation part--clearly there are still a great many relevant details that are not publically known.

[JI7]

19. I want the Trump Org Destroyed . I want them exposed . i don't just want him gone from public office

and then continue with the same corrupt shit they have been doing for decades.

totally agree. this is the same reason i have to not want to rush to impeachment.

[uponit7771]

20. Russia is going to help Red Don in 2020, they helped him last time and it worked why in the world

... would we leave this up to Trump Russia team again?!

[G_j]

42. And...GOP continues to ramp up

Voter Suppression

[uponit7771]

47. +1

[Vinca]

21. The one question I would like answered from our potential nominees is -

If elected, would you pardon Trump?

[Solomon]

22. Both sides "come to an agreement on the facts"?

You must have missed the memo. We now live in a world of alternate facts, alternate reality. There won't be any agreement on the"facts". What is a "fact" now anyway? Facts don't exist anymore. There are only opinions.

[Mr.Bill]

54. I agree.

If we came up with video of Trump sodomizing dead babies while he cuts their heads off, the Senate will not remove him from office. I am not kidding or exaggerating.

I also fear that no impeachment will make some on our side throw up their hands and wonder why they should even bother to vote. I elected my representative in Washington to remove this monster from office or at least do everything they can to try. I will accept nothing less.

Let the republican Senators who will not remove him from office identify themselves. This will turn out the Democratic vote in November 2020 better than not impeaching a criminal who obviously deserves it.

[NYMinute]

23. I agree completely

A half-assed impeachment will only make Trump stronger to defeat.

[watoos]

27. That is a right wing talking point

with no basis in fact.

[NYMinute]

28. Historically

Bill Clinton's popularity went up during impeachment and he was seen as a victim.

Impeachment will make Republicans come out in droves to the polls. Currently they are demoralized.

It is best to keep investigations going and gather more evidence. There will come a time when all Americans would cry out for impeachment and repuke senators won't be able to shy away from the facts.

[Poiuyt]

48. Clinton's popularity went up temporarily, but came back down

He was always popular (unlike Trump).

Remember however, Republicans took control of the White House after Clinton's impeachment and kept control of the Congress. It's a fallacy that impeachment helps the impeached party.

[gldstwmn]

50. He has ceased to obey the law. There won't

be a question of defeat if he is not reigned in soon. This has gone on far too long already.

[qdouble]

24. The dems should impeach, but just string out the impeachment hearings for a long time

[SKKY]

26. I don't want Trump impeached. I know the constitution allows for it, and logic demands it...

...but I think it lets the folks who voted for Trump, many of them Sanders supporters, off the hook. People should be forced to suffer the consequences of their actions. Cutting off your nose to spite your face is never a good look. I hope they've learned their lesson.

[watoos]

29. This is getting really annoying,

I don't see anyone accusing Hillary supporters of voting for McCain, maybe some did though? Why do we keep bashing Democrats?

[SKKY]

30. Here's why. 80K votes. That's what separated us from a fairly run-of-the-mill Clinton...

...Presidency to this freaking nightmare. EIGHTY THOUSAND VOTES!!! So, for all those who voted contrary to their own self interests because they were upset that Sanders didn't win the nomination (about 4-6 million depending on which poll you read), I hope they've learned their lesson. I get it. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz talked it for Clinton. I get it. She gave the Clinton campaign debate questions. I get it. But for the love of all that is good, is this really worth it? We're one slip, fall, or sudden death away from having a conservative dominated Supreme Court for the foreseeable future. Certainly for my lifetime (I'm 48). And that's not even mentioning all the truly scary crap he's doing (Believing Putin over his own Intel, all the conservative lower court judges, etc).

I'm sure some Clinton supporters did vote for McCain. But Obama won, didn't he? So, what's the point?

[G_j]

43. So your reasoning is

don’t impeach because it will make “Sanders supporters “
who “voted for Trump” suffer??

[SKKY]

45. Not suffer. I don't wish that on anyone, but assume the consequences of their vote? Absolutely.

But, it's obvious some have been slow to absorb the wisdom of voting in your best interests, so I'm not particularly hopeful.

[spanone]

31. trump only understands blunt force trauma.

[VOX]

34. Actual fact.

There’s no capacity for subtlety or nuance in that stable genius’ thick skull.

[Trumpocalypse]

32. Pence can only pardon for federal crimes

Not for state crimes.

[Oneironaut]

35. The best reason not to impeach, imo, is the current state of the Democratic Party.

I honestly believe even a vote for impeachment would fail. Our party is failing us while Trump is destroying the country and our Democracy. They believe the system will save us, and American citizens will come to their senses. This is an outdated way of thinking.

We haven’t mounted an effective defense against Trump yet. We’re still wide open to being steamrolled by Trump and his party. The reaction to the Mueller Report proves this. Where are the organized protests? Where are the Democratic Congresspeople raising hell for us!? Where is any sign that anyone on our side actually cares? Instead, we get weak condemnations and then crickets, followed by whining about how we “lost” with the Mueller Report.

It’s total bull. The Mueller Report proved Trump is a criminal scumbag, but our party’s members are wailing that it wasn’t a knockout. No kidding - it’s not going to matter if you just sit on the sidelines and don’t push the issue. We’re expecting Trump’s downfall to just drop into our laps.

Sorry it this offends anyone or gets juried, but our elected representatives and members of Congress are not doing what we elected them to do. Quick sound bites and appearances on Anderson Cooper are not going to change peoples’ minds. We’re fucking up again.

And that is why I’m against impeachment at this point in time. We erroneously believe it’s a magic button for stopping Trump. In the event Trump is impeached, it has the potential to blow up in our faces spectacularly. We’re not controlling the message in the media right now - the alt-right is. We’re always on the defense, while they’re pushing forward against us everyday.

Come on Democrats - get together and create a convention to make a game plan for taking on Trump in 2020, and possibly impeaching him. Make sure with absolute certainty you can impeach. If you just jump into it with no plan, it’s going to be a spectacular disaster. We’re going to slit our own throats before the election even gets into full swing.

Once again, this is just my opinion. I’m not attacking Democrats - I think we can do much better. I think we’re failing. We can’t pretend everything is ok now. There’s too much at stake.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

37. Would be very interesting to control events such that Republicons beg and plead to impeach tRump. nt

[joanbarnes]

39. Everyone who wants to wait for 2020 is overlooking the Russian influence.......

[gldstwmn]

53. Exactly.

[H2O Man]

40. Recommended.

[rolypolychloe]

46. It's time to press to have the 2016 election annulled

I was disappointed in the Mueller report. I was expecting evidence that the RNC and the NRA took foreign money. Perhaps the FEC investigations will reveal such. If they do, we need to press to have the elections annulled, like they did in North Carolina. Trump is parnoid about the legitamacy of his presidency. It is his kryptonite. If his presidency is annulled plus every politician that took RNC or NRA money is annulled, all those supreme court and judical picks as well as all the partison decisions in the Senate would be rolled back. Fruit of the poisoned tree concept. Impeachment just isn't as good. Republicans have never shied away from outrageous demands. Democrats should step up now, if for no other reason than to see Trumps head expload.

[gldstwmn]

49. He is never going to jail.

For the first time in my life I actually think a president might refuse to leave office at the end of his term. He is blatantly obstructing justice and instructing his subordinates to do the same. He colluded with a foreign power to win an election and will not hesitate to do it again. Everyone keeps talking about 2020 but time is a luxury. Initially I believed that slowly building a case and consensus was the best way. He is thumbing his nose at the rule of law. Who and I mean who is going to remove this shitbag from office? I am serious. He is going to have to be dragged out. He thinks he is untouchable. So far he is right. He is going to start some sort of conflict at our southern border and leverage that to do as he pleases. I could go on. Things are becoming more dire with each passing day now.

[elleng]

51. It's TIMING, title should be 'not to impeach trump NOW.'

[Chin music]

52. What seems to get lost in that analysis is, the destruction this man can do

w mconnel in 2 years. Will we even recognize our country? Everyday he does impeachable stuff. They're impeachable for a reason...they kill Democracies.
What happens if trump and putin pull the electrical plug a day or two before the election and we are all listening to what's going on w wind up emergency radios? It's not out of the question. He's already displayed his willingness to abuse presidential powers. I think giving the gop any time at all is a call for disaster. We have the momentum, let's let it roll. They would.
To think we are going to build a case any repub would warm to seems the height of folly. If they want to be on the winning team...switch over nd go blue. JUST MY EVER LOVING OPINION.

[Nevermypresident]

55. I'm curious. For those of you calling for "due diligence", have you read Mueller Report?

In it's entirety?

[Mr.Bill]

56. No one has

except William Barr.

[Nevermypresident]

57. LOL

[Wawannabe]

60. Wait? What?...

Fuck that!
Been calling for impeachment and signed petitions since early in this shit show!
I say fuck that!

Fuck. tRump. Impeach already.

[Tarc]

62. The charges against Trump in NY State would be immune from a Pence pardon

Otherwise, yea, I'd rather leave him right where he is as an albatross around the GOP's neck in 2020.