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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAlan Dershowitz just lied 4 times on MSNBC, and I can prove it
Last edited Thu May 3, 2018, 05:59 PM - Edit history (1)
Dershowitz came on full of outrage at the Cohen wiretap. I was doing my morning walk so have to paraphrase the lies.
He started out stating that he knew that this was an absolute civil rights outrage and when everyone else responded you couldn't know that because Dershowitz had not seen the actual warrant and the facts that led to it he couldn't know "for a fact" that it was an abuse.
He then stated he knew it because in general "it is easy for federal prosecutors to get a warrant", that they frequently "abuse their power and hoodwink judges", target someone, "like they did Trump" and find a crime just like they would have done "if Hillary was President" and that his only interest is " because I am a civil libertarian".
Not only are these lies they are easily disprovable lies.
1) Federal wiretap warrants are NOT easy to get. My business clientele is federal employees. One of my client's full time job is to fill out applications for federal wiretap warrants. Even at relatively low levels they are very difficult to get. The originating office has to have the head attorney sign off of it and then it would go the attorney for the local law enforcement entity (in this case the FBI). Then it would go to the regional supervising office of both the federal prosecutors and FBI and then to the specialized offices at the Department of Justice and the FBI and then it would have to work its way down the chain.
That, however, is not the proof. The proof is the federal prosecution conviction rate nation wide runs around 90%. There are many prosecutors who have 100% conviction rate including many of the prosecutors working for Mueller. You do not get 98% conviction rate if you are hoodwinking judges, breaking the rules on evidence and not following Supreme Court guidelines.
Dershowitz states that he has been in practice 33 years. Show us 3 a year, 100 cases where there has been a case where federal prosecutors did not follow procedure on warrants. I doubt that he could name one a year, that is the proof, the appeal courts and the Supreme Court is not hearing and ruling on a lot of these cases, which they would if there was wide spread abuse.
2) Al Capone. Dershowitz said it was a common practice for federal prosecutors to decide to prosecute someone and then hunt for the infraction, like Al Capone. No that's what the House Republicans tried to do with Secretary of Clinton but it didn't work. They didn't start investigating Donald Trump. Trump hired people and gave them jobs and they were already under investigation. There already an investigation into Carter Page and Paul Manafort before they joined up with Trump. They were investigating Flynn before he was appointed NSC Chair. In fact they warned the President that he was a security risk and Trump fired Acting Director Yates and hired Flynn, so this is a lie.
As for the Al Capone reference. Yes it is true that when Al Capone, who was a mass murderer and was bribing thousands of police and public officials could not be prosecuting by the system he corrupted they eventually went to the IRS. Again this is the fallacy of taking an extreme example and calling it ordinary.
3) AD said that his only concern was because he was a "civil libertarian" and it was shameful that the ACLU was not on this, etc. etc. etc.
Alan Dershowitz is NOT a great civil libertarian. If he was he would be stridently denouncing Trump for his many attacks on civil liberties. He would have denounced the Muslim travel ban, the attack on DACA and the constant attacks on federal employees who are whistle blowing on illegal practices of the Trump Administration.
Or, and this is the issue I feel most strongly about, he would have denounced Trump for advocating for the arrest of the Central Park 5 who have been conclusively proven innocent.
Alan Dershowitz is NOT a civil libertarian. He is a legal gad fly that is drawn to celebrities like a moth to a light. The proof of this is had Alan Dershowitz been a true civil libertarian he would have been on Trump's enemies list, not on his invitation for private dinners at the White House.
4) Dershowitz condescendingly patronized the former federal prosecutor who worked for Giuliani and said that he had never seen any of these practices while he worked at the office. Dershowitz knew it for a fact that it was "common place". If that is true then name the prosecutors and judges who have not been following federal DOJ and Supreme Court guidelines by name. He won't because a) they don't exist and b) he doesn't want to be sued for defamation.
There was one more lie I noted but the walk was too long and by the time I got home I was so angry about these 4 I couldn't remember the other two, lol.
Edited to Add: Now that it has turned out that there was NO wiretap but only a "register of phone calls" who called who it makes Dershowitz's uninformed, over the top, mindless hysteria even more ridiculous.
Re: Giuliani's message to Rosenstein to examine the Cohen wiretap: Why in the hell is Giuliani commenting on a wiretap on Cohen, he doesn't represent him.
50 Shades Of Blue
(9,920 posts)Afromania
(2,768 posts)This guy was arguing like a typical republican.
R: It is what it is..
D: How do you know?
R: Because I believe it is..
D: What if what you believe is wrong?
R: Because (xyz fact pulled out of thin air) says I'm right..
D: What you just said is patently insane and I can disprove it.
R: You don't know, only I know (insert whatever experience/source as evidence as to why only they know)..
D: There see (shows facts disproving insane supposition).
R: FAKE NEWS, YOU HATE THE COUNTRY, PARTISAN POLITICS, CIVIL WAR (warblegarble *foams from the mouth*)
FakeNoose
(32,579 posts)... "Says who?"
ba- dum-bum-tiss
Atticus
(15,124 posts)spiking as he belligerently lied through his teeth.
BigmanPigman
(51,567 posts)I had to change channels. Normally I don't give him more than 15 seconds. I gave him another chance today and he blew it. Once again, he is on the "change the channel ASAP" list with about 20 others.
we can do it
(12,169 posts)Vinca
(50,236 posts)grantcart
(53,061 posts)Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)Power 2 the People
(2,437 posts)(Jeffrey Epstein) + (Trump has the goods because he was there) = Dershowitz loyalty.
marble falls
(57,010 posts)an admission that puts his wealth out there for the victims. He's already been sued (unsuccessfully) over this.
Native
(5,936 posts)For the life of me, I can't come up with any other reason why Dershowitz has been going to such extreme lengths to totally destroy any good reputation he might have once had.
marble falls
(57,010 posts)JPK
(650 posts)Al is deep in the Epstein, Trump underage "model" sex ring and the rape of young teenage girls. That is the only reason he's so protective of Trump. I'm not a lawyer and even I thought his arguments were full of BS.
True Blue American
(17,981 posts)Taps were made. And other statements he made. I was glad Steve had those on to call him on his lies.
Alan went on a tirade of hating every one in Law Enforcement and Judges were liars,etc.
It is time for the stations to get rid of him. He was ranting like crazy.
Giuliano was only kept at a Law Firm for 10 years so they could use his name. He was losing it,so they let him go.
Dershowitz has not practiced Law for 20 years now.
gilligan
(194 posts)Defense attorney. Anyone rember O.J.?
Power 2 the People
(2,437 posts)Civil Libertarian my ass. It's all about the Benjamins for this Fox News flunky.
Dershowitz esteemed client list. He's the guy you call when nobody with a moral compass will take your case.
OJ Simpson - Murderer
Claus Von Bulow - Murderer
Mike Tyson - Rapist
Roman Polanski - Child Rapist
Leona Helmsley - "Only the little people pay taxes."
Jim Bakker - Evangelical con-man and pervert.
Michael Milken - Junk bond king/rackateer.
JEFFREY EPSTEIN - Child Rape. Sick f*ck.
Dershowitz argued in favor of torture after 9/11 "as long as you get a warrant."
[link:https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/12/12/business/alan-dershowitz-timeline.html#/#time392_11337|]
gibraltar72
(7,498 posts)because he wanted to be relevant again.
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Dershowitz argued that the U.S. government could torture a suspect if a warrant is issued. A warrant. By the same government he now asserts will lie and cheat to obtain permission to violate an individual's "civil liberties". Like torture, for example.
He's a despicable bastard, leveraging off of the public's actual sympathies for actual victims of civil rights abuses in order to defend actual criminals for profit.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)mikeysnot
(4,756 posts)what a tool....
olegramps
(8,200 posts)geardaddy
(24,926 posts)Dershowitz is a POS.
P.S. He's on Assange's legal defense team.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)He's "in" with Trump in some way. Some business agreements between them, or Dershowitz hoping for some? Hoping to handle the appeal(s)?
This is how it is when you are perceived to be mega wealthy & powerful. You can do anything, and people still flock around you, like moths to a flame.
Dershowitz has lost his credibility.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Now that I think about it, Netanyahu is bffs with Trump, now. So maybe Dershowitz is on the Israel bandwagon; Trump has promised Israel something. Israel, the Middle East are big issues for Dershowitz. There. That's it, IMO.
The reason I think Dershowitz is on the take for something is that most lawyers see both sides. There are usually arguments for both sides that can be made. Dershowitz isn't doing that. He is totally a mouthpiece for Trump, w/no objectivity. He speaks like a lawyer defending his client.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)KY_EnviroGuy
(14,488 posts).....
BadGimp
(4,012 posts)Mike Nelson
(9,944 posts)...like to say he's for civil liberties and will defend the rights of unjustly accused... but he seems to favor the guilty wealthy... and he loves being on TV.
Hekate
(90,556 posts)regnaD kciN
(26,044 posts)grantcart
(53,061 posts)Quixote1818
(28,918 posts)He is nothing but an opportunist with no moral compass.
biglib63
(11 posts)Maybe Trump, Cohen, Manafort, Gates, Flynn and all the others in this fiasco are innocent and simply victims of overly aggressive prosecutors. Just like OJ.
BobTheSubgenius
(11,559 posts)Thank you so much for this!!
While it's a very subjective point with no way to verify, I feel strongly that hoodwinking judges to get a wiretap warrant would be a great way to get yourself out of the warrant business, so to speak.
You might get away with it once, if you have a good explanation. Twice would be extremely iffy, and three strikes, you're out.
I have no direct knowledge of this arena, but it seems like a pretty credible POV.