Atheist President Steps Down to Concentrate on Trial

[cleanhippie]

John Albert Kieffer, the president of Atheists of Florida, has stepped down temporarily to focus on his Nov. 7 trial involving a prayer incident at a Polk County School Board meeting earlier this year, an official with the organization said Wednesday.

--snip--

Kieffer, 61, of Tampa, was charged with disorderly conduct and resisting an officer without violence. At a Feb. 22 School Board meeting, Kieffer along with Wachs were being disruptive.

The Polk County School Board changed its policies to hold the invocation prior to the official start of the meeting. During the invocation, Kieffer and Wachs took pictures and were speaking loudly. Chairwoman Kay Fields told Kieffer to leave but he said he wasn't violating any laws because the meeting hadn't officially started. Assistant Superintendent of Support Services Fred Murphy instructed two Bartow police officers to remove Kieffer and he resisted. Because the incident took place before the official start of the board meeting, there is no video recording of the incident although a brief audio recording exists.

http://www.theledger.com/article/20111019/NEWS/111019242?p=1&tc=pg

[trotsky]

1. Why couldn't he just shut up and let Christians have their way?

Like a good atheist is supposed to!

[qb]

2. I hope his argument has merit in court. This could be interesting.

:popcorn:

[struggle4progress]

4. The whole affair is silly. The idiots of the Polk County School Board were beginning

their meetings with a prayer, which was silly enough; Freedom From Religion Foundation threatened a lawsuit; the Polk County School Board decided they would let somebody offer a "voluntary" prayer before the meeting instead and published disclaimers about how voluntary it was; John Albert Kieffer, who lives in a different county, then attended the Polk County School Board with the intent of showing that he doesn't care for their "voluntary prayer" -- and when he disrupted it, he was told to be leave and apparently resisted removal

Pretty much everybody involved looks like a colossal jackass to me. In principle, I'm sympathetic to Kieffer, but the fact is that he only went there to be a jerk. Some courts in the past have sometimes ruled that a person might have a duty to resist false arrest, but I doubt that's current doctrine where Kieffer's case will be heard -- and local courts are likely to lean towards the officer's version of events when resisting arrest is alleged. I expect that if he'd exhibited somewhat more intelligence and finesse, he would have had better prospects here

[humblebum]

3. Hopefully more people will begin to stand up for free exercise of religion.

Just belligerent atheists being belligerent atheists.

[dmallind]

5. Yep this is right there in the red letters

Jesus said to love God with all your heart and soul, to love your neighbor as yourself, and above all to make sure you pray publicly before secular governmental meetings were the greatest commandments and essential parts of the faith. Matthew is very clear here - especially in 6: 5-6. How can christianity be exercised if you can't have an uninterrupted prayer in front of a captive audience of all faiths and none before doing "Caesar's" business?

[Goblinmonger]

6. If they were exercising their freedom of religion

why would him talking be a hindrance to that? It wasn't (read: couldn't be) a formal prayer and was voluntary (read: a bullshit move to get around what the law really says) so why does he have to volunteer. If everyone had to be quiet and respect the prayer and/or take part in it, that seems like THEY are the belligerent assholes pushing what they want on those in attendance at the meeting.

Yeah, yeah, I know....Mao, Stalin, millions dead, blah, blah, blah.

[humblebum]

7. It does appear that his intention was to stop the prayer or to

interfere with it. If it was indeed voluntary and if he was attempting to stop or interfere with it, then he deserves to be cited.

[Goblinmonger]

8. Cited? With what?

Interfering with a voluntary prayer? Why can't they just pray where they are sitting, get it over with, and start the meeting? Sounds like they wanted to make a big deal about it. Isn't that something the bible says not to do?

[humblebum]

9. Probably disturbing the peace. nt

[Goblinmonger]

10. So in humblebum's world...

Muslim strangling protesting atheist is OK.
Charging atheist with disturbing the peace by daring to speak during involuntary prayer is OK.

I'm glad I don't live in your fucked up world.

[humblebum]

13. I'd sure like to see where you got those ideas. As usual, using

dishonesty and diversion to avoid the obvious. Just endearing organized atheism to the general public as each day passes.

[Goblinmonger]

14. Well, for the second one

just scroll up a little bit. For the first one, go back to the Muslim attacking the atheist thread.

Do you really never remember what you type? Do you think nobody else does? Does this stupid game of "I never really said that" work for you in your everyday life? Because, if so, you might want to hang around with some smarter people (or not, I guess, if you somehow get to get away with your bullshit).

[humblebum]

15. Show me the quote where I said "Muslim strangling protesting atheist is OK."

nd as far arresting the Atheist. If he was perfectly interefering with a perfectly legal activity, he needed to be charged.

[Goblinmonger]

16. So you can't talk when someone is doing an informal prayer?

It if isn't part of the meeting and is just happening before it starts, they need to be ready for people to be coming in to watch the meeting and be talking when it happens. If they are demanding that everyone be there before the prayer and quiet before it starts then they are just being douchebags and playing douchebag games to prevent a lawsuit.

And go look for yourself on the Muslim thread. You entire tone that whole time was that the atheist was being and ass and you understood why the person would react that way and evil militant atheists and Mao and blah blah blah. I'm not playing the link to it so I can get a post deleted bullshit game with you.

[humblebum]

17. Well I'm glad to see you admit that your previous accusations were

nothing but blather. Honesty looks good on you.

[Goblinmonger]

18. Please tell me how that post says that.

I'm not playing the quote game with you (notice I didn't use quotes when I said you were saying). Your overall point in that Muslim thread was clear. My initial summary of it is still a good one. Just because I didn't remind you of what you said doesn't mean I admit shit.

[humblebum]

19. You were claiming that I either said or implied something, which

you know to be untrue. simple as that.

[Goblinmonger]

20. I have no idea what you are talking about.

Because I didn't give you a link to remind you of what you said? How about this one?

[humblebum]

21. Good. you found it. Now prove it. nt

[Goblinmonger]

22. Wow.

That's about it. Wow. I'm not going to join you in this tail-chasing party you seem to have.

[humblebum]

23. That's what I thought. Question #121:

When asked "The guy in the costume should be protected by law, don't you
think so?"

My reply was: "Yes I do." Now where in that did I condone that he be strangled?

[Goblinmonger]

24. Your overall attitude was clear

He was an evil militant atheist (which you hate) and he should have expected what he got. Because you parse your position further down thread does not contradict the stance you took. Sure, it makes it difficult for the mods to tombstone you because you "make things clear" later on, but nobody reading that thread (or any thread where you go off on atheists) has any doubt about what you are saying.

[humblebum]

25. IOW, it's not OK to criticize atheism or atheists. Got it.

What is obvious is that you are trying to put words in my mouth. It's commonly called framing.

[Goblinmonger]

26. criticize =/= assault n/t

[humblebum]

28. intentional dishonesty == lie. nt

[Goblinmonger]

29. Prove it. n/t

[humblebum]

31. Already did. nt

[Goblinmonger]

34. Where? I don't see any proof that I intentionally lied. n/t

[humblebum]

35. My words were clear proof. anything beyond is purely your spin. nt

[Goblinmonger]

37. I quoted your words from that thread. How is that spin? n/t

[Goblinmonger]

27. Oh, and I want to play your game.

When did I put words in your mouth. Prove it. Remember what quotation marks mean (and the absence thereof).

[humblebum]

30. Straw man. nt

[laconicsax]

32. Apricot n/t

[Goblinmonger]

33. You clearly don't know what that means. n/t

[humblebum]

36. Well, it pretty obvious you don't.

What part of "Yes I do." confuses you so much?

[Goblinmonger]

38. Even if you are correct (which I don't admit)

that doesn't make it a strawman. I would make me wrong. Just because you see the big boys tossing around descriptions of logical fallacies doesn't mean you have the big boy underwear to do it yourself. As evidenced by your inability to use it correctly here.

[humblebum]

39. You sure throw out a lot of wild accusations without any knowledge

of your "opponent's" background. And yes that is very much a straw man.

[laconicsax]

40. Rocket ship. n/t

[humblebum]

41. Playdough. nt

[laconicsax]

43. Rock salt n/t

[deacon_sephiroth]

44. I think a lot of us are glad for that one

Those dirty heathens of us that have a thanksgiving just because they like food and family will no doubt be "giving thanks" that we do NOT have ot live in Humblebum's nightmarish theocracy

[struggle4progress]

12. He may not have been arrested for conduct during the prayer but for conduct afterwards. It might be

difficult to obtain an objective view of events here, and the Ledger article suggests to me that just about everybody involved is non compos mentis: School board member Frank O'Reilly, for example, is whining that Atheists of Florida have aggravated officials by making many public records requests

:eyes:

[NMMNG]

42. More like free exercise of hypocrisy

Matthew 6:5-6
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.


Just belligerent Christians being belligerent Christians. They'd crap themselves if a group of Muslims beginning their meeting with prayers to Allah, or a Pagan coven prayed to the goddess, but it's OK for them to push Christian prayers on everyone.

[struggle4progress]

11. Man objects to prayer, is arrested at Polk School board meeting (WTSP | 23 Feb 2011)

8:53 PM, Feb 23, 2011

... "As the Reverend Alex Harper started his invocation, all of the suddent these two people approached, talking loudly between themselves the man would stand by Alex Harper and the woman would take a picture and then he would stand on the other side and she would take a picture. All the time, they were talking," O'Reilly said ...

Photo Gallery: John Kieffer's pictures from the school board meeting

At the end of the invocation, O'Reilly says he felt compelled to speak up. Moments before the prayer, they discussed the breaking news of the arrest of a 16-year-old in St. Petersburg in the shooting death of Officer David Crawford ...

"I said, this is the rudest outbreak I have ever seen and the man stood in front of me, 'Oh no, religion has no place in government'," he recalled, "He kept saying, 'religion has no place in government, place in government. They said, please sit down or leave. He kept up." ...

http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=176636

http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=176636