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geckosfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 08:45 PM
Original message
Oh my God I want to leave this country. Does anyone
have any suggestions?
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Welcome
to Canada eh?

Canada accepts more legal immigrants relative to its population than any country on Earth.

In the past two years, almost half a million immigrants arrived, a shade less than half of them in one city alone -- Toronto. The largest numbers for the country as a whole, amounting to almost 40 per cent of the total, came from China, India, Pakistan and the Philippines.

The federal government, responsible for immigration targets, heralds these waves on humanitarian and economic grounds, the argument being that immigration shows Canada as a caring country whose new arrivals will fuel future economic growth.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/index.html
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FloridaPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. If only you were in the tropics. I would have been there years ago.
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xray s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Do they accept older Americans who might want to become Canadian citizens?
I'd like to retire in Canada but I am not sure if they allow that.
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markus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Took the quiz and got a 72
Do you know of any Canadian-specific job websites, particular for technical and/or professional people?

I think I may have to buzz a contractor who worked for us on my last large project, who may know.

I'm increasinlgy disllusioned with the U.S., and the climate won't be that big a trauma coming from Fargo, N.D.
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geckosfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. eh? Yes.
I went to school in Buffalo NY and am very familair with the Canadian,,, errr,, brewers outlets.

Have been to Toronto a few times. I think though, that I would much rather be on the west coast. How is Vancouver? I hear its quite nice.
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Monkeybumper Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. A few things Maple forgot to mention .
Along with the mass legal immigration to Canada is a mass illegal immigration with almost fifty thousand immigrants that entered the country and then skipped to never show at their immigration hearings and to never be seen again .
Our prison population is now made up of over 50 % immigrants and our social services are being crushed by this tidal wave of immigration . Violent crimes including gun crimes are at record levels in Toronto where the bulk of the immigrants have settled .

If you are coming here make sure you bring LOTS of money we are the highest taxed nation in the G 8.
Middle class Canadians now pay near 70 % of their income to taxes of one sort or another , thats right if you make $1000 a week when your done paying taxes user fees etc etc the government will leave you with about $300 bucks.

I hope your in good health because our Health system is in shambles . You can expect to wait 2 years to get a personal physician and if you do get sick the wait to be admitted to a hospital or even get diagnostic tests may well kill you (it did kill my mother)

If your considering buying a house here you better have lots of cash on hand with the price of an average home in the greater Toronto area now being well over $300,000

Maples comment that this mass legal and illegal immigration will fuel future economic growth is yet to be seen and disputed by many hopefully you wont die or go broke waiting to see it come to fruition.
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politicat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. Spain is nice and they put out a request for technical people 2 years ago
We have our eye on a flat in Spain right now.

We'd considered England, but Tony's doing his best to emulate *, so Spain was our second choice. Plus, I can study the Basques there.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-12-06 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
28. Study The Basques? I'm One!
Well, I'm half Basque, on my mom's side....Basque and Irish, no wonder I hate fascists so much!

I have also been thinking seriously of relocating to Spain when my kids are grown, which brought me to this very interesting forum!
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tenshi816 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
7. I'm very partial to the UK.
Edited on Thu Jun-09-05 05:52 AM by tenshi816
I've been here for 19 years and my quality of life is highly satisfactory. My children are getting their education in a good state school. We don't worry about health care. I don't worry unduly about someone shooting me or my loved ones.

Taxes are high, but the benefits outweigh them.

Oh, and by and large the people are wonderful too. They may not like the current American government, but they don't really hate Americans (except for the Kool-Aid drinking variety).

I would find it hard to go back to the States permanently. We thought about it during the Clinton years, but decided against it because we figured sooner or later the Repubs would take over.



On edit: There was a news item on BBC-TV a few weeks back about Australian immigration. Apparently they are opening the country up for immigration again because of a skills shortage, and not just in things like IT - apparently they're crying out for people with skills like auto repair and hairdressing and plumbing and so on, the things we take for granted will be there if we need them. I don't know if the opportunity for emigrating applies to people who live in non-Commonwealth countries, but if you're interested it might be worth checking into.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. A grad school friend wrote in her Christmas letter that
her daughter, who had spent her junior year in England, was going back after graduation to take teacher training because there's a shortage of teachers in the U.K.
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tenshi816 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-25-05 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. There's a severe shortage of teachers.
In fact, I've been looking into it myself, although I don't know if I'm up to being a teacher. I'm not sure I could control a classroom of young children, but I love the idea of teaching, if that makes any sense. I would like to be a university lecturer rather than a primary or secondary school teacher.

Teachers are paid really badly in Britain though, which explains why there's such a shortage. Teachers and nurses, that's my pet rant - one group saves lives and the other educates the next generation, and the wages for both are shitty. It makes no sense to me. They should be paid not just a living wage (which they barely are), but a salary that reflects the skills and dedication they bring to the job. Not to mention the fact that in some cases, teachers and nurses deserve hazard pay.

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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
10. I do too. n/t
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johannes1984 Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-05 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
11. getting into Belgium is easy
All you have to do is prove you will be a non violent member of society , who adapts in learning the language .

How can anyone be non violent in this world you ask...

1 we're conveniently located next to holland , and possesion is legal
2No legal drinking age , and the brew's made by pro-life catholic monks ...old school
3 adoption and marriage for all , state stipends to boot
4 Universal health care , free from personal expense , apart from a contribution paid either by state or employing company
5 Police that ...well ever see manuel in falthy towers ....he's their role model
6 residents , all of them , get welfare , a meager 950 $ , per person
7 we're run by the banking interests , no nasty security aparatus
8 the weather sucks , but we'll never have a drought (keeping fingers crossed )
9 tits and naughty words are the standard
10 we talk reeaaal funny
11 americans are well liked , part of our grass is always greener syndrome
12 our dialect is to french , what aussie is to english

and finaly ....we're part of europe now .

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Hieronymus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Thanks, that's quite an ad for Belgium.
It's definitely on my list.:hi:
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Where do I apply? Do you have a link?
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. How do I sign up? - I definitely want to move there
Brugge is my favorite town in Europe.
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. Say hello to my distant relatives from Perwez
and Tourinnes St. Lambert, si vous plait.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #11
27. Are you serious? Can I move to Belgium?
If we get in, can we get residency? Can we buy property? Can we become citizens?
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nkrumah Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. Move to the "old world"
If you're open minded and curious about how life goes on in
the so called "old world", why don't you try to
check out good old Europe on a informal 2 or 3 months travel
basis. The F.R.of Germany is still a pretty cool place to
live. Almost everybody speaks some english (the western part)
or would be enlighted to meet somebody from the States.
Countryside is mostley spectacular, urban regions are
well-structured. The southern part, with the federal states
Bavaria and Baden-Würrtemberg hold a very high quality of
life, good climate, good opportunities for qualified work. Big
Cities are good places to live, like Hamburg, Berlin, Munich,
or the so called "Ruhrpott". If you like to know
more about Germany, just let me know. 

Frank
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Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Welcome to DU!
:hi:
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nkrumah Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Thanks for welcoming
Even though I never stayed longer as six weeks for a holiday in the U.S. and was raised in Germany, I feel kind of attached to whats goin on over there. Not only because of my german-american heritage and my family-members spread out over the country, but also because I am pretty fed up with stereotyped thinking in both countries. A cousin of mine, who lives in D.C. gave me a hint to sign in for DU and I'm looking forward to interesting exchanges of words and thoughts.
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Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I hope you feel welcome here
It can be very enjoyable here overall, though there is the occasional frustrating flame war.

:hi:
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marlakay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. My husbands dad is from Germany
moved over here by his parents before WWII. They didn't want him to be part of the war. We keep meaning to visit there since we still have relatives there. He was from Flensburg. What is it like there?
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #17
33. Flensburg is wayyyyyy up north on the Danish border
Go in the summer! In the winter, the climate is usually cold with howling wind
and grey skies for weeks on end. It is considered a very provincial part of Germany
where not a lot is going on (this may not be a negative), although it is easy on the eye.
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CarbonDate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-12-05 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
18. I'm going to Guam next year.
Sure, it's a U.S. territory, but it's so remote that the only real problems I'll have to deal with are the snakes, the heat, and the occasional typhoon.

Seriously looking forward to it.
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Babette Donating Member (810 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Sorry, I know this is a late reply...
I was a military brat who lived on Guam for 10 years. It really is a wonderful place. The people are friendly if you try to understand their culture and don't come in with an "everything's better in the US" mentality. Unfortunately, there are several large bases there and the men and women of the armed forces haven't gone out of their way to be part of the community. I know navy wives who were afraid to leave the base because of "cannibals"! I'm trying not to lump all sailors into one group, but there is a tendency for them to get into trouble with the locals. No one wants their sister to be the Guam girlfriend along with the other girlfriends the sailor has in other places (I know that's a stereotype). Sailors have a reputation for hanging out at bars and "massage" parlors.

You'll be fine as long as you're not a loud obnoxious haole who constantly criticizes the island and culture. That seems to be all the locals are exposed to.

Incidentally, my mother and sister still live on Guam. They might be able to give you tips on fun things to do and good places to eat. Drop me a note if so.
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CarbonDate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-10-06 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. I like it here so far.
I've only been here a week, but the weather is nice and the people are friendly enough.

I'm a bit of a barfly myself, but I've no intention of visiting the "massage" parlors. Then again, I'm an airman, not a sailor, so the culture is a bit different. I'm looking forward to the next few years.
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Stockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
25. You are always welcome to Sweden!
Edited on Thu Jul-06-06 01:58 PM by Stockholm
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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
26. I'm thinking about the Czech Republic or Hungary
I want someplace still reasonable at a cost of living, so Switzerland, Austria and Luxemburg are out. I also want a stable democracy, so Bulgaria is out.

I hear Hungarian is a very hard language to learn, and that they are pretty stand-offish, and that the Czechs are friendlier, and the language is still hard, but closer to german (which I'm awful at, but can understand a little).
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Czech language
I don't speak it, but it's "closer to German" only in the sense that English is closer to Russian than it is to Chinese.

In fact, Czech is in the Slavic family with Russian, Polish, Bulgarian, Serbo-Croatian, Ukrainian, and a bunch of similar languages. However, unlike Russian, it's written in the Latin alphabet. As such, it is a distant relative of most other European languages.

Hungarian is not related to anything in Europe except Finnish and Estonian, and it's not even very closely related to those. All three languages are in the so-called Finno-Ugric family, which originated in Siberia and also includes Sami (Lapp) and a bunch of Siberian tribal languages that you never heard of.

The other anomaly in Europe is the Basque language, which is believed to be the remnant of the language spoken in Spain before it became a Roman colony.
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jeffrey_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
29. My wife and I just spent a month in Europe...
We've talked loosely about moving over there, but nothing really serious. She has two years to finish school, interships, etc. before she gets her degree.

We talked about more while we were over there, pegging Paris, London or Amsterdam as places where we could see our selves living.

The funny thing is, I really didn't start taking this seriously until we stepped foot back in this country. We both missed Europe immediately as we settled back into our life here in the U.S. It has been downright depressing the past 10 days since we have been back.

We've been doing nothing but planning our two year exit strategy.

It is going to happen.
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Gymmfinn Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
31. Leaving Amerika
oh my god, YES!!, I want to leave this country. And for quite some time now. The administration has lost all common sense of people and life. They seem to be bent on controlling the rest of the world for their own, paranoid, materialistic purposes.
But...what bothers me most is that a very large percentage of the population, re-elected those SOB's. This is VERY scary to me.
I think amerikans have changed radically since 911 and not for the better. We seem to be overly caught up with our own "safety" and personal comfort. We have lost the good opinion of the majority of the World.
If you view a country as you would an individual, we can be described as a spoiled, yuppie, teenager with quite some degree of paranoia and arrogance; a dangerous combination to be sure.
In particular, I mourn the loss of respect of Europe. These countries are our forebears, our parents so to speak. We have turned our backs on them, like a rebellious adolescent, ignoring their morale objections and political concerns, and headstrongly plowing our way towards military and economic fascism.
It is a sad thing. But then comes the response "well, if you don't like whats going on around you, why not stay and try to change it instead of turning tail and leaving?"
My answer to this is: "Would you stay and try to change Germany in 1939 if you lived there then?" Sorry but I think we've gone past the point of no return. Very, very sad but not much to be done. Get out while you still can.
Am I too paranoid and cynical?
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. That last is a very valid question
I sort of straddle the fence, but spend most of my time
in Europe these days. If you come here, there are all the
pluses you want and minuses you do not want to hear about.

There are restrictions on civil liberty that would make Americans
scream, and yet the Europeans take for granted. Here in Germany,
you have to register with the local police when you move to a town,
and then de-register with them if you move away, and then must re-register
with the police in your new town of residence. When I asked why they thought
this was necessary, the answer was "to be better able to track criminals."
Great--to Germans, every citizen is a potential criminal, so the State has
to keep track of all of them. When I explained that in the USA, there was
no such system, and that if you wanted to move somewhere, it was your business
and not that of the local police, they thought we were totally lax. The German
system is used in one form or another by most European nations, and is only
lenient if you are an immigrant from an Islamic or Balkan country, in which case,
you are a poor wretch to be pitied and allowed every transgression including
armed robbery and assault, because you were underprivileged. I know a guy in
France who attacked in his shop by a Bulgarian wielding a hammer. The guy was 70
years old. His head covered in blood, he managed to get the hammer away from the
Bulgarian and then subdue his attacker with it until the cops came. The Bulgarian
was not arrested or even charged with anything, but the 70 year old shop owner was
charged with assault and battery.

The violent crime is increasing everywhere, and it is catching most western European
countries by surprise, as it did not use to be the norm here.

Taxes are very high, here, as well. You definitely get something back for it, as
education and most medical care is provided, but be prepared. The local equivalents
of the IRS have Gestapo-like powers, and they make use of them. They are always right,
and you are always wrong, especially in France, where the Napoleonic code is still the
guiding light (sort of "guilty until proven innocent").

Living space is at a premium, and very expensive compared to most U.S. locations outside
of San Francisco, Manhattan, or Boston. Less so in Eastern Europe (with corresponding
lack of basic services), but they are catching up rapidly, and Moscow has surpassed
Oslo and Geneva in many respects as the most expensive city in Europe, despite the huge
rich/poor gap there (it's scary in Russia).

Language is vital. You can no more live comfortably in Prague speaking no Czech than
you can in Des Moines speaking only Czech. Hungarian is indeed a task to learn. Budapest
is an interesting town, and I got by there with German and Russian, but Magyarul (Hungarian)
is one true bitch to learn. If you know ANY Slavic language, the others are not too
difficult to learn with some help, but if you don't know any Slavic languages, they are
a chore, though not on a scale with Hungarian or Finnish. If you know German, then Dutch
and the Scandinavian languages are easy to learn, with Swedish being the easiest. The Latin
languages are not difficult, either. French, Spanish and Italian are all similar, and not
overly hard to get a basic knowledge of. But: be prepared to learn them again, once you have
mastered the basics. These languages and cultures have been intact for over a thousand
years, and that means LOTS of local differences and TONS of slang expressions they will
never teach you in school. Just because you can read Unamuno does not mean you speak Spanish,
it only means you can read it. I got the same thing the first time I went to Russia. They
looked at me and asked if I had been asleep for 90 years. The only Russian I knew was out
of Dostoyevsky novels, and I had no knowledge of Soviet era slang at all, and my speech
reflected it. They understood me just fine, but their 20th century slang went right by me.
One Soviet official once told me that American vodka wasn't bad, but that Russian vodka
was just a tiny raisin better (HUH?). That's one of those "they forgot to teach us that
one in school" expressions. Local dialects sometimes differ widely from the standard
language. Swiss German is so different to understand that Swiss programs shown on German
TV have subtitles in German for the Swiss German, even though there is no difference in
the written language, and most Germans consider having to listen to an accent from Saxony
as torture as understood by the Geneva Convention.

OK, now you know the pitfalls. Their bureaucracy is maddening, too, but you get used to it.

The good news is that once you're in, you are IN. Tightly knit communities, circles of friends
with whom you can leave the keys to your house (as they will with you), wonderful food and
historical old cities, short distances between everything, dozens of different countries
at your doorstep (sorta), and you never run out of interesting places to go or people to be
with. My wife is European, and loves to visit the USA, but does not want to live there. Period.
Maybe when her mom and brother are no longer alive, and then only New England, nowhere else
in the States, and not as long as Bush and his demolishing of civil liberties are in effect.
She loves being able to walk to the town square through a park with a 1000 year old castle,
and buy fresh stuff three times a week from farmers, just like they have done here for the
last 800 years. She likes to be able to run down to France or Switzerland for the weekend,
and have traveled no farther than the distance from Boston to New York. Plus public
transportation is unbelievable here. Trains, trams, buses, go nearly everywhere, although
the various infrastructures need to be overhauled--they have been taken for granted too long,
and delays once unthinkable ten years ago are now the norm.

Our daughters, on the other hand, who grew up here (Rheinland), have attended school in Hawaii, L.A.,
Washington, D.C. and, now, New York, and love it there. They like coming home for visits, but
for now, they want to stay in New York (neither of them would even consider Dallas--they spent
way too much time as kids here in Europe to adjust to that). So, go figure. You find what suits you,
and you give it a shot. As long as you're not a serf, there is always that road out of town, and it's
a big world out there.
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